iPad Mini

[MartinWardPhoto]

I’m fairly new to hillwalking after catching the bug, learning to navigate by compass again some 25 years after being in Scouts so have so have found myself using ViewRanger to double check.

I use an iPhone 7 Plus and chews the battery, my old android S5 seems to fair better but I’m due a tablet upgrade and wondered if anyone has tried to use a iPad mini with ViewRanger?

Would it be useful with bigger battery for back up using follow mode? Or is it really just a track and occasional check position type app and pointless to upgrade to the mini?????

[davekeiller]

I've never tried using an ipad on the hill.
What are you planning to use it for? I generally only want a grid reference to confirm my location, in which case what you've already got works fine, and an ipad just complicates things. I'd also be worried about how robust and waterproof ipads are (or aren't), and the fact it's a lot of money wasted if you drop, break or lose it.

[BobMcBob]

Generally Apple gear battery life with GPS is terrible. Android fares much better, but then you have to use Android I use my iPhone for an occasional GPS fix but I'd never rely on it for navigation. I've had my phone battery fail in cold weather, had the touchscreen fail due to water, you name it, been unable to read the screen in bright sunlight, very unreliable. Taking an iPad just seems like unecessary extra weight that will gain you nothing.

[Robinho08]

Do you put your phone on flight mode whilst out and about? This saves a huge amount of battery and GPS still works in this mode.

[BobMcBob]

Do you put your phone on flight mode whilst out and about? This saves a huge amount of battery and GPS still works in this mode.

All the time. It's a known issue with iOS - GPS drains the battery really fast on some phones.

[Spade]

I wouldn't rely on it at all. If you want a good GPS the Garmin GPS 62 or a sat map, something built for the purpose.. Honestly keep the iPad for reading walk highlands, much safer. Of course never beating map n compass.
All the best

[Ben Nachie]

Map, compass and a Garmin Foretrex second hand from fleaBay. That's all you need to navigate and to get un-lost.

The battery lasts 10-12 hours if used continuously, or weeks if you just turn it on to spot check now and again.

[Will N To]

My son says the iPad Mini might not be upgraded. It's 2015 technology, so it's long in the tooth. He said that the mini pad niche has been wiped out by the phablets (super sized smart phones) so that might be the way to go. He also said the Amazon Fire mini tablet is $100 and Android.

I was hoping to get a new version of the iPad Mini and use it for maps in Scotland May and June. Doesn't look like there will be a new one.
For GPS I use an iPhone 6s, with the biggest Anker battery. I used this combo in Japan a couple of years ago. Worked everywhere, but couldn't download maps in many places. (At that time there was a since recalled and fixed iPhone battery problem where the battery would just go dead for no reason. The Anker battery got it working. This set-up worked well enough for at least 5 days between plugging in.
Motion X GPS app was great in Shiretoko National Park in Hokkaido. It downloaded the line of the trail I was on with the weak and intermittent cellular signal I got. This and the Apple Compass App (Lat + Longitude), plus real compass and paper map worked great.
GPS in any device uses up a lot of battery. Google Maps seems to turn my iPhone into a heater and sucks the battery like a vampire. GPS doesn't seem to use as much power as Google Maps (so I usually just find my route and then 'x' out the destination to turn it off. Google Maps in the wilderness seems useless. )
Don't know about Android.
I used to have Garmin, but there was always some killer-flaw. The last one I had sucked the higher power batteries in 7-8 hours. Changing batteries required first disconnecting the device from the part that tethers it, and then requires KiloNewton level force to pry off the back. So... Kayak, calm sea, battery change+ Garmin Engineering = over the side. It did solve all my Garmin problems.
I learned that if you have an iPad with the cellular connection option (+$100-$!50) and have a sim card in it, you don't need a cellular account to make the GPS work. Not sure what this means in the backcountry. (You know about the two GPS systems, one relying on cell towers, the other on an actual GPS antenna and signals from satellites)
I expected Apple to upgrade their whole iPad line this month, but they only upgraded the iPad (regular) and lowered the price. It weighs just over 1 lb, the iPad Mini weighs .67 lbs. So I guess I'll get a regular iPad. Most of my paper maps are assembled and annotated screen captures that I'll view as images, while using a compass, and some GPS information from my iPhone. I learned not to trust mapping apps, they seem to lose all information as soon as they get away from cell towers. So you can be in town planning your route on your phone and the next day as soon as you go over the hill all the mapping data just vanishes. Hope this helps.

[jolly47roger]

When you say 'two GPS systems' they work together. If cell towers are 'visible' then they are used to approximate and short-cut the calculations based on GPS satellites. But once a satellite fix is found you don't need cell towers and the device can be in Airplane mode. It may lose satellites in thick forest or deep gorges but will establish the fix very quickly once there is a clear view of the sky. If you are in the backcountry when you turn the device on a fix without cell towers just takes a bit longer.

Some apps give more control of maps. GalileoGPS or Maps n Trax, for example, allow you to install your own maps and they stay on the device until you delete them. These give you a 'moving map' experience. If Open Street Map is all you need, look at Vectorial Map app and Open Andro Maps.

[BobMcBob]

When you say 'two GPS systems' they work together. If cell towers are 'visible' then they are used to approximate and short-cut the calculations based on GPS satellites.

Also the position data from the towers can't calculate your height, and in complex terrain it's very inaccurate. Also requires 3 towers which in the Highlands is at least 2 more than you're likely to get

[davekeiller]

Sounds like you've got a really complicated way of doing things!
If you buy a paper OS map, then that also includes a free download which I think you can keep on your iPad if you so choose. Personally, I navigate almost entirely by paper map and magnetic compass, with GPS as a backup (i.e. I'm not sure where I am, give me a grid reference now!).
Paper maps don't have batteries to go flat and won't lose the data connection. They are also lightweight and cheap to buy and replace.
The ipad + iphone + battery pack combo is adding weight, expense and complexity. I also don't see any improvement in reliability compared to a paper map. Leave the ipad at home, and pretty soon you won't miss it!

[davekeiller]

Postscript to the above:

Ask yourself the question "how does using an ipad make hillwalking a more enjoyable experience?"
Then ask "how much money would I have to spend, and is it worth it?"

Lots of us on here probably spend too much time in front of screens, so one of the attractions of hillwalking is getting away from them!

[Phil the Hill]

I'd agree with the above comments.

I have an iPad mini, but mostly use it as a Kindle on the train. It doesn't have a SIM, so I haven't tried using it for navigation, as using the phone as a hotspot for it would really eat battery. Battery life is better than my old iPhone 6S, but I'd go for an extra battery pack with a iPhone rather than using an iPad mini to check position with GPS, as you'd presumably be carrying a phone anyway.

[Coop]

Sounds like you've got a really complicated way of doing things!
If you buy a paper OS map, then that also includes a free download which I think you can keep on your iPad if you so choose. Personally, I navigate almost entirely by paper map and magnetic compass, with GPS as a backup (i.e. I'm not sure where I am, give me a grid reference now!).
Paper maps don't have batteries to go flat and won't lose the data connection. They are also lightweight and cheap to buy and replace.
The ipad + iphone + battery pack combo is adding weight, expense and complexity. I also don't see any improvement in reliability compared to a paper map. Leave the ipad at home, and pretty soon you won't miss it!

Seconded

[Will N To]

Well having just plonked down $500 US for the 'new' one, I agree that paper and magnetic compass are all you should really need and I've just bought myself yet another headache. And even though electronics are getting more reliable and waterproof...definitely, if they go bad we should know how to proceed without them, or how to retreat without them.
That being said. They are helpful, can be highly accurate and they are another source of information and back-up.
However, (there's a lot of qualification in my method), in my bed just before I turn out the lights, I sometimes check my iPhone 6s Compass. (It points true north and shows my lat and long, and elevation). It definitely varies between 470 and 520 feet (or more, these are just two numbers I remember from right now and a couple of days ago). Also the Lat and Longitude also varies, by seconds. This is from my bed a top a hill with direct line of sight to at least 5 cell towers. (My house is falling down the hill so going up 50 feet did not happen.) Outside, clear view to about 1/3rd of the sky, and several GPS satellites, I get the same numbers. Sometimes the compass is wildly off, but a restart fixes that and I've never notice it being off while on a trail. (And I always have a real compass.

To support my folly of hiking with an iPad. Maps and Annotated Maps. I can also carry as many Cicerone guides as I want, two real ones weigh more than the 9.7" iPad. (And the Cape Wrath Trail map I assembled from OS Screen shots is significantly superior the the one in the guide book. I have 100% faith in online maps: Not that they will be there when I need, but that they will NOT be there when most needed.
I also have this plan to read Francis Pryor's book on Stonehenge in my tent as I walk to it next week from Lyme Regis. But that Anker battery is pretty heavy. Next week? Yikes.