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Upgrading equipment.

Upgrading equipment.


Postby Outnabout » Sat May 05, 2018 8:58 pm

Just started out hill walking having done just over half a dozen and have came to realise that the gear I have just doesn't cut it in the rain, shoes are ok the now now but jacket and waterproof trousers are sh!t to put it mildly, was absolutely soaked from the inside out today.

Question is what should I be looking out for, I always thought gore Tex to be the best when fishing but realising pretty quick the hills are a different animal altogether. So is gore tex the bench mark or is there better out there.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Arthurs Eat » Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am

Follow the Goretex v Paramo thread. Interesting read.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Outnabout » Sun May 06, 2018 11:31 am

Arthurs Eat wrote:Follow the Goretex v Paramo thread. Interesting read.

Been reading that but also been reading about the north face hyvent, and a few other brands that have their own breathability specs, all very confusing.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby davekeiller » Sun May 06, 2018 5:08 pm

Goretex is probably the most popular waterproof material. Whether it's the best depends on how you define "best", as there's always a trade-off between waterproofing, breathability, weight, durability and price.
Waterproofs can broadly be divided into 3 types:

Impermeable plastics - Generally only found in cheap waterproofs. These are generally good at keeping rain out, but lack of breathability means that they keep the sweat in and you'll often get hot wearing them.

PTFE membranes. Brands include Goretex and eVent, and most clothing manufacturers have their own system. These generally use a PTFE membrane and you can think of them as being like a really thin layer of plastic with lots of holes in it. They are waterproof because the holes are too small for liquid water droplets to get through, and breathable because the holes are big enough for the molecules of water vapour to get through. Generally speaking, lighter weight means more breathable but less waterproof and not as durable. Generally, eVent is lighter and more breathable than goretex but not as durable.

Nikwax analogy. Paramo and one or two others use this. It's supposed to work like animal fur to draw water away from the body. It's generally a bit warmer and heavier than a membrane (some say that's a selling point as you need fewer insulating layers, other that it's too warm), and is less waterproof but more breathable and dries out quicker. The marmite of outdoor gear in that people either love it or hate it.

It's probably best to think about what type of walking you do, how much you're willing to spend and whether you tend to get too hot or too cold and then go to a few shops and see what they recommend.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Backpacker » Sun May 06, 2018 5:36 pm

I take the term "breathable" with a very large pinch of salt, nothing I've tried whether it be goretex, paramo or A.N Other has been truly breathable, probably not helped with having a rucksack strapped to me for anything up to 12 hours (excluding summit stops)
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Outnabout » Sun May 06, 2018 5:44 pm

davekeiller wrote:Goretex is probably the most popular waterproof material. Whether it's the best depends on how you define "best", as there's always a trade-off between waterproofing, breathability, weight, durability and price.
Waterproofs can broadly be divided into 3 types:

Impermeable plastics - Generally only found in cheap waterproofs. These are generally good at keeping rain out, but lack of breathability means that they keep the sweat in and you'll often get hot wearing them.

PTFE membranes. Brands include Goretex and eVent, and most clothing manufacturers have their own system. These generally use a PTFE membrane and you can think of them as being like a really thin layer of plastic with lots of holes in it. They are waterproof because the holes are too small for liquid water droplets to get through, and breathable because the holes are big enough for the molecules of water vapour to get through. Generally speaking, lighter weight means more breathable but less waterproof and not as durable. Generally, eVent is lighter and more breathable than goretex but not as durable.

Nikwax analogy. Paramo and one or two others use this. It's supposed to work like animal fur to draw water away from the body. It's generally a bit warmer and heavier than a membrane (some say that's a selling point as you need fewer insulating layers, other that it's too warm), and is less waterproof but more breathable and dries out quicker. The marmite of outdoor gear in that people either love it or hate it.

It's probably best to think about what type of walking you do, how much you're willing to spend and whether you tend to get too hot or too cold and then go to a few shops and see what they recommend.

Great post, thanks. As I'm going back out tomorrow I went out to decathlon and bought Quechua jacket and trousers today after reading some good reviews not the most expensive but just by looks and feel the look a lot more breathable with under arm vents and down the side of the legs. Regarding the walking, will do pretty much anything I'm always hot tho. Will keep an eye out for more having just missed out on an acteryx and gore Tex the day on eBay.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Outnabout » Sun May 06, 2018 5:45 pm

Backpacker wrote:I take the term "breathable" with a very large pinch of salt, nothing I've tried whether it be goretex, paramo or A.N Other has been truly breathable, probably not helped with having a rucksack strapped to me for anything up to 12 hours (excluding summit stops)

I may find this to be a problem for me too as I'm always hot
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby simon-b » Tue May 08, 2018 7:44 pm

Outnabout wrote:
Backpacker wrote:I take the term "breathable" with a very large pinch of salt, nothing I've tried whether it be goretex, paramo or A.N Other has been truly breathable, probably not helped with having a rucksack strapped to me for anything up to 12 hours (excluding summit stops)

I may find this to be a problem for me too as I'm always hot

It depends how you define truly breathable. There's definitely such a thing as truly non-breathable! Modern membranes and directional technology may not elimiate condensation entirely, but they definitely let a lot more out than an old cagoule or a basic PVC waterproof. I sweat a lot under exertion too, and I use an e-Vent jacket - a lot more comfortable than something less breathable, even if no jacket is perfect.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby rgf101 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:30 am

Backpacker wrote:I take the term "breathable" with a very large pinch of salt, nothing I've tried whether it be goretex, paramo or A.N Other has been truly breathable, probably not helped with having a rucksack strapped to me for anything up to 12 hours (excluding summit stops)


Agree with this. Get decent gear, but I’d pay as much attention to ventilation options - armpit zips in a jacket, full length side zips and buttons in trousers - as the actual material. It’s also how you walk as well. There’s a tendency to hurry in the rain, which just means more sweat to get rid of. If possible, at rest stops remove and flap about whatever layers you can.

The keeping rain out bit is relatively easy. Getting sweat out is trickier.
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Alteknacker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:05 pm

I strongly recommend reading Andy Kirkpatrick's blogs on gear. His background as a professional mountaineer means he's particularly well qualified to talk on the subject, and his alter-profession as a stand-up comedian means he's very readable. His one on waterproof/breathable - which goes right back to the simple (but basic and easy-to-understand physics) - is easily the best summary of the subject I've read (and has saved me a shedload of unnecessary spend).
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Re: Upgrading equipment.

Postby Caberfeidh » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:20 pm

simon-b wrote:
Outnabout wrote:
Backpacker wrote:I take the term "breathable" with a very large pinch of salt, nothing I've tried whether it be goretex, paramo or A.N Other has been truly breathable, probably not helped with having a rucksack strapped to me for anything up to 12 hours (excluding summit stops)

I may find this to be a problem for me too as I'm always hot

It depends how you define truly breathable. There's definitely such a thing as truly non-breathable! Modern membranes and directional technology may not elimiate condensation entirely, but they definitely let a lot more out than an old cagoule or a basic PVC waterproof. I sweat a lot under exertion too, and I use an e-Vent jacket - a lot more comfortable than something less breathable, even if no jacket is perfect.


Too right. I bought a jacket which claimed to be 100% breathable , but that turned out to be 100% bullshit! It was like a tarpaulin. It certainly kept rain and wind out but it was like a sauna in there, if I walked even a hundred yards in it I was soaked in condensation, and of course when I then took it off the wind howled through my damp clothing and chilled me to the bone. See this thread~ https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=42812
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