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Help with raincoats...

Help with raincoats...


Postby NanashiNoProfile » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Hello,

I've managed to get by on what are essentially poor coats for a few years now. A while back, this didn't matter so much as I spent less time on the hills and made attempts to go in better weather. Generally, I haven't spent over £100 on a coat but my increased time outdoors means that I'm going to have get something a little better. I've read reviews for a lot of coats but I feel like I come with a particular set of problems that perhaps others could help with:

I get very warm, very quickly.

I've kind of become used to arriving back at my car a complete sweaty mess now, but if I could go some way to avoiding this, that would be nice. Backpack systems designed to cool backs to do not work for me, my back and chest just pour sweat (it's probably a condition) so I generally only bring the coat out when absolutely necessary. I go out walking with a friend or two who remain utterly dry throughout and I just don't know how it's done. I don't think it's possible for me. So, with that in mind, does anybody have any advice on a coat that is better on the breathable end? Vents have helped a little in the past, but still my arms become wetter on the inside of the coat than the outside. I'm hoping I'll be able to afford something good around Christmas (I'm not very wealthy but will make a change here), so have plenty of time to pore over responses.

Thanks!
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Scottk » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:20 pm

You might be better trying a paramo jacket. They are much warmer than waterproof jackets and work differently but I can usually get off with just a t shirt and the jacket in winter. In summer I use a windproof and only use a waterproof if really necessary.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby NanashiNoProfile » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:28 pm

Reading up on Paramo now, sounds very interesting! Managed to never hear of them before, but I'll be looking at more of what they offer now. Thanks!
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Caberfeidh » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:19 am

I found a layering system with nylon base layer, fleece top then Goretex outer worked a bit but sometimes still left me damp from condensation. I figured I was just erring on the side of caution and dressing too warmly. I found a great anorak at one of those Nepalese clothing bazaars; it is showerproof and windproof but breathable and light, easy to pack away. I got it years ago for only twenty quid and it has worn out with burst zips and generally I could do with another. Can I find a Nepalese clothing bazaar these days? It's like that mysterious shop in Mr Benn; completely disappeared...

mr-benn-screenshot.jpg
Got any Nepalese anoraks?
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby NanashiNoProfile » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:32 am

Caberfeidh wrote:Can I find a Nepalese clothing bazaar these days? It's like that mysterious shop in Mr Benn; completely disappeared...

mr-benn-screenshot.jpg


No use right now really, but back in July (20th-ish) I was driving through Killin on my way back from Glen Lyon and a Nepalese clothing festival was taking place! Perhaps you might be aware of it, but I'm sure it mentioned a year in the banner and seemed like a yearly deal.

Something else to look into also!
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Ben Nachie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:20 am

I've given up on waterproofs pretty much entirely now. I've just bought a Rab Alpha Direct jacket which I'm about to try out as a summer jacket, and I have been using Buffalo in the colder seasons for the last 30 years.

I use a merino wool tee as a base layer, and merino underwear.

If it is raining persistently yes, you get wet, but you're comfortable. Certainly more comfortable than with the usual system, plus when the rain stops you dry out much quicker.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Sack the Juggler » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:41 am

NanashiNoProfile wrote:Hello,

I've managed to get by on what are essentially poor coats for a few years now. A while back, this didn't matter so much as I spent less time on the hills and made attempts to go in better weather. Generally, I haven't spent over £100 on a coat but my increased time outdoors means that I'm going to have get something a little better. I've read reviews for a lot of coats but I feel like I come with a particular set of problems that perhaps others could help with:

I get very warm, very quickly.

I've kind of become used to arriving back at my car a complete sweaty mess now, but if I could go some way to avoiding this, that would be nice. Backpack systems designed to cool backs to do not work for me, my back and chest just pour sweat (it's probably a condition) so I generally only bring the coat out when absolutely necessary. I go out walking with a friend or two who remain utterly dry throughout and I just don't know how it's done. I don't think it's possible for me. So, with that in mind, does anybody have any advice on a coat that is better on the breathable end? Vents have helped a little in the past, but still my arms become wetter on the inside of the coat than the outside. I'm hoping I'll be able to afford something good around Christmas (I'm not very wealthy but will make a change here), so have plenty of time to pore over responses.

Thanks!

I get hot too when I'm on the hills. While I'm sure that Goretex is breathable for some people, for me, I just overpower it and I sweat buckets. My conditions is called "unfit and overweight" but I'm sure that not the same condition you have.

The buffalo tops are way too warm for me as is Paramo's offering really.

I tend to go with a wicking base layer and either a lightweight windproof or a lightweight waterproof.

With a wicking layer and a windproof my sweat wicks away to the outside and I tend to stay dry, the windproof stops me getting chilled from the wind. Even in light rain showers I'll stick with this as it dries out quite quickly.

If its cold I'll use the patagonia nano air, which is warm but super breathable, but cuts out the wind, so you can move quickly in it while it sheds the heat and the sweat (except on my back where the backpack stops it breathing).

I have tried many different waterproof layers, but the best breathable waterproofs for me are Neoshell (which is basically a windproof material but dialled right up to waterproof) and eVent (although these are harder to get hold of now).

The only downside to some neoshell jackets is that they come with a wicking inner surface, which helps transport the water vapour outside the jacket, but this can act as an insulation layer and can add to the sweat being produced, so I'd shop around to find a lightweight one if you can.

Other than that I've tried marmot's nano membrain and that seems to breath ok, and is lightweight.

The biggest thing about finding the right jacket is also the fit. Most jackets do a job, but some are shorter than others and get your nads wet, or have pockets in the wrong area because they made for climbing harnesses, or their arms are too long (Paramo?), or they are too boxy or too athletic.

I still have some goretex jackets that I use, and I do sweat a lot in them, but they have a good fit for me.

Not sure if that has helped any, but to summarise; neoshell and a windproof.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Giant Stoneater » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:03 pm

I tend to get very warm while hillwalking and I had a Goretex jacket a few years ago that had a mesh liner which was just the business when you got sweaty.
Nowadays most jackets and I presume down to cost have done away with mesh liners in jackets hence they can feel cold and wet inside.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby davekeiller » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:13 pm

As I've said elsewhere on this forum, it's generally a trade-off between waterproofing, breathability and durability.
Probably eVent or Goretex paclite would be the best options to look for, although they might not be as durable as other options.
Paramo is definitely an option to consider, and I'm a fan of their more lightweight stuff. Unfortunately it's not cheap, but if you google paramo seconds you can buy cosmetic seconds etc. direct from them through eBay.

Incidentally, mesh liners in jackets tend to be found on the more budget end of the market. The mesh liner is because it's a 2 layer membrane rather than a 3 layer membrane so the mesh is required to protect the membrane from oils in sweat.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby walkerali » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:35 pm

Hi NanashiNoProfile. I see you're from Fife, so I suggest you make your way to Keela's outlet shop buried deep inside an industrial estate on the outskirts of Glenrothes. Keela is a little known brand but it's top quality at affordable prices. The name of the company which designs and manufactures Keela is Ilasco Ltd and you'll find details of their products and shop on their website. But don't tell anybody about Keela clothing - it's a well-kept secret!
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Giant Stoneater » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:03 pm

davekeiller wrote:As I've said elsewhere on this forum, it's generally a trade-off between waterproofing, breathability and durability.
Probably eVent or Goretex paclite would be the best options to look for, although they might not be as durable as other options.
Paramo is definitely an option to consider, and I'm a fan of their more lightweight stuff. Unfortunately it's not cheap, but if you google paramo seconds you can buy cosmetic seconds etc. direct from them through eBay.

Incidentally, mesh liners in jackets tend to be found on the more budget end of the market. The mesh liner is because it's a 2 layer membrane rather than a 3 layer membrane so the mesh is required to protect the membrane from oils in sweat.


Davekiller my Goretex jacket is 3 layer with mesh lining and with a snowskirt and definitely not budget end of market I think I paid £260 about 15 years ago for it,and no other jacket has came close to beating it.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby NanashiNoProfile » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:42 pm

walkerali wrote:Hi NanashiNoProfile. I see you're from Fife, so I suggest you make your way to Keela's outlet shop buried deep inside an industrial estate on the outskirts of Glenrothes. Keela is a little known brand but it's top quality at affordable prices. The name of the company which designs and manufactures Keela is Ilasco Ltd and you'll find details of their products and shop on their website. But don't tell anybody about Keela clothing - it's a well-kept secret!


Thanks for the heads up! I hadn't heard of this place but it's a pay day excursion for sure!
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby NanashiNoProfile » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:44 pm

Sack the Juggler wrote:Not sure if that has helped any, but to summarise; neoshell and a windproof.


Most definitely has! Lots to consider, thanks for taking the time :)
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Alteknacker » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:36 pm

There are some fundamental difficulties in keeping dry if you run hot, and it's raining at all hard (the physics).

The best overview of the whole subject that I've found is by Andy Kirkpatrick.

https://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_truth_about_breathable_waterproofs.

I had recent demonstration of the principle that if the outside of your breathable waterproof is wet, it can't breath. Walking in strong wind and rain in the Brecon Beacons, both my brother and I, wearing "breathable" waterproofs and working hard, were from quite early on as wet inside as if we'd had worn no waterproof at all.
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Re: Help with raincoats...

Postby Ben Nachie » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:27 am

Exactly what Alteknacker says. The quoted article by Andy Kirkpatrick is well worth the read. After over 30 years in the hills I have come to the conclusion that 'waterproofs' are a complete waste of time unless you are inactive.
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