Help with raincoats...

[Jobax]

keep your gore tex in the freezer

[davekeiller]

@ Giant Stoneeater, I think you've confused a general rule of thumb with an absolute statement.
Jackets that use a 3 layer membrane don't need a mesh liner, and as a result tend not to have them. This makes the jacket lighter, (possibly) more breathable and (according to the advertising claims) more robust.
Jackets that use a 2 layer membrane need a mesh liner in order to protect the membrane.

2 layer membranes tend (as a general rule to which there are probably exceptions) to be found at the cheaper end of the market, and 3 layer membranes (because they are more expensive to make) at the higher end of the market.

It's thus entirely possible that you've got a high spec jacket using a 3 layer membrane with a mesh liner, and for it to be true that mesh liners to be more common at the budget end of the market.

[Sack the Juggler]

In defence of waterproofs: whilst I have said that I prefer walking in a wicking layer plus a windproof, even in light rain, I still believe there is a case for waterproofs on the hills.

Don't get me wrong, I understand and agree with most of what Andy Kirkpatrick says, and when climbing the gouter arete in I did it wearing a t shirt and lightweight windproof and I still had steam billowing out of my open jacket, I even took my gloves off I was that hot. I would have had heatstroke if I was wearing a waterproof.

When walking up hills I prefer the same system... however, when its pouring down I will wear waterproofs, to stop myself sweating so much I slow my pace down, and take it easy, and I'm not always climbing up hills, sometimes I'm walking on top of them or even down them, which is a lot easier and less heat builds up, and any sweat that has built up whilst climbing will slowly evaporate and leave me dry inside (moisture will travel through them... eventually).

This is especially true in the winter months, or if its really windy (like today), when the outside temperature / conditions also play a part in regulating my body temperature.

So whilst I agree that the breathability of waterproofs is a marketing myth, some of them allow more moisture transfer than others, and they do a job, so that's why I still wear them... occasionally

[Caberfeidh]

Ye can't go wrong with a good set of oilskins and a sou'wester.

[NanashiNoProfile]

Well, I got impatient and went for the Paramo Enduro Windproof and Fleece after it was mentioned in here. I've only had chance to test them in the lower hills of Camusvrachan so far, but the air vents worked a treat and any moisture I generated soon dried out (it was around 8°c and fairly windy). Looking forward to wearing it out a little higher up in the near future!

Thanks for the help!

[TheFox]

Exactly what Alteknacker says. The quoted article by Andy Kirkpatrick is well worth the read. After over 30 years in the hills I have come to the conclusion that 'waterproofs' are a complete waste of time unless you are inactive.

After only four or so years in the outdoors and not all that far into medical school I have come to the conclusion that being completely soaked through by freezing December rain for any extended period of time is a recipe for hypothermia and a possible ticket to the morgue.

[Ben Nachie]

Exactly what Alteknacker says. The quoted article by Andy Kirkpatrick is well worth the read. After over 30 years in the hills I have come to the conclusion that 'waterproofs' are a complete waste of time unless you are inactive.

After only four or so years in the outdoors and not all that far into medical school I have come to the conclusion that being completely soaked through by freezing December rain for any extended period of time is a recipe for hypothermia and a possible ticket to the morgue.

After 33 years in the hills, including being soaked by freezing December rain for extended periods of time on numerous occasions, I can inform you that I'm not dead and furthermore was pretty comfortable throughout.

The thing about Buffalo equipment is you never actually get that wet.


Anyhow it's not getting wet that kills you, it's getting cold. The two are related, but not necessarily mutually inclusive.

[Sack the Juggler]

Exactly what Alteknacker says. The quoted article by Andy Kirkpatrick is well worth the read. After over 30 years in the hills I have come to the conclusion that 'waterproofs' are a complete waste of time unless you are inactive.

After only four or so years in the outdoors and not all that far into medical school I have come to the conclusion that being completely soaked through by freezing December rain for any extended period of time is a recipe for hypothermia and a possible ticket to the morgue.

After 33 years in the hills, including being soaked by freezing December rain for extended periods of time on numerous occasions, I can inform you that I'm not dead and furthermore was pretty comfortable throughout.

The thing about Buffalo equipment is you never actually get that wet.


Anyhow it's not getting wet that kills you, it's getting cold. The two are related, but not necessarily mutually inclusive.

how does wearing buffalo from head to toe in July feel? or do you have a summer wardrobe for the rain?

[Ben Nachie]

After 33 years in the hills, including being soaked by freezing December rain for extended periods of time on numerous occasions, I can inform you that I'm not dead and furthermore was pretty comfortable throughout.

The thing about Buffalo equipment is you never actually get that wet.


Anyhow it's not getting wet that kills you, it's getting cold. The two are related, but not necessarily mutually inclusive.

how does wearing buffalo from head to toe in July feel? or do you have a summer wardrobe for the rain?

Good question.

I have struggled with a summer wardrobe until recently. I find the Buffalo shirt works for me if it's wet and windy, even in summer if I'm not exerting myself heavily going uphill, so I use it on the summits of the weather is poor. I also used to wear a merino tee (and a fleece, if necessary) with a Goretex for that hot & steamy experience. I have however recently bought a Rab Alpha Direct jacket which seems to work just like a Buffalo but it is much thinner and so covers a warmer temperature range. I have been wearing it over a merino tee.

I therefore now no longer carry a waterproof jacket, but I'm still to find a good solution for my legs in summer. Currently I wear regular outdoors type trousers, with gaiters if it's cold/wet. I still put on waterproof trousers if it looks like it's going to rain for a while. I wondered about a rain kilt. Super breathable but maybe not so effective on a wet & windy summit.

[Hola]

Waterproof only out of pack and worn in heavy rain, otherwise will either delaminate or DWR will rub off with continual movement and pressure of the Backpack.

95% of the time hiking, when not raining, I wear a Synthetic layer. e.g. Lightweight OMM Primaloft or Rab Primaloft lightweight tops. Can tolerate dampness, fog, mist but not rain. Synthetics remain warm when wet.
Also wear a Montane wind layer over as an extra if needed.

If warmer weather, just some Rab breathable Tees plus a cheap base layer/Fleece.

When it rains, I use the OMM Aether Event waterproof...