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Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:51 pm

Thanks rohan!

JD and JD left very different legacies (in the broadest sense of the word) to Scotland.

Both of them were connected to a place which some might assume was part of their house.

But, how were JD and JD connected?

Tim
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:22 pm

John Dunlop invented rubber, and without a rubber seal, James Dewar couldn't have made his vacuum flask work.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:41 pm

Sgurr wrote:John Dunlop invented rubber, and without a rubber seal, James Dewar couldn't have made his vacuum flask work.


Such a clever answer I want to say Yes! - but not who I was thinking of. Further steps need to be taken…
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:56 pm

John Deere makes tractors, and John Duncan hires them out....though I doubt if this is what you had in mind.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:59 pm

Sgurr wrote:John Deere makes tractors, and John Duncan hires them out....though I doubt if this is what you had in mind.


The answer may be staring in the face…

The two legacies of these two JDs are very different. One is little known but has made a key aspect of life in Scotland different from that in England (and arguably better in some respects). The other legacy is well known, and notorious.

Tim
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:48 pm

I have been looking for the place that "..some might assume was part of their house" and so far have drawn a blank with Bathgate and Stonehouse but Stepps has thrown up a tenuous connection with a gangland boss by the name of Jamie Duncan whose nephew was shot there. Then I get nothing more.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:19 pm

rohan wrote:I have been looking for the place that "..some might assume was part of their house" and so far have drawn a blank with Bathgate and Stonehouse but Stepps has thrown up a tenuous connection with a gangland boss by the name of Jamie Duncan whose nephew was shot there. Then I get nothing more.


Stepps is VERY close!

And, I am talking about something much more notorious than a gangland murder…

Tim
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:07 pm

Picture clue. Neither is probably very recognisable...

wh.jpg


...but the one on the right was described by G.K. Chesterton's Father Brown as

"He was a very learned man, a statesman with very serious and enlarged ideas of statesmanship, a quiet man with a very refined and intellectual face.

The sort of man who sells himself to the Devil."

Tim
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby CharlesT » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:50 pm

The one on the left is Sir James Dalrymple, 1st Earl of Stair. I'll let others work out the rest.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:01 pm

CharlesT wrote:The one on the left is Sir James Dalrymple, 1st Earl of Stair. I'll let others work out the rest.


His son, the 2nd Earl of Stair, John Dalrymple played an unsavoury role in the Glencoe Massacre. The one on the right is William Graham 6th Laird of Claverhouse whose son, known as John Graham of Dundee, led the Jacobites to victory at Killecrankie but lost his life in the battle. Not sure if this is relevant to the answer though!
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:09 pm

I think we are there!

The two JDs are James Dalrymple and John Dalrymple, respectively Viscount of Stair and 1st Earl of Stair.

They were father and son. There is still an Earl of Stair - they are onto no.14 now.

James was "one of the greatest thinkers on law Europe has ever produced" and his book on Scots law "set the practice of law in Scotland on a sound philosophical basis, almost certainly helped to ensure that Scots law would remain in force as a distinct entity after the union of 1707." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dalrymple,_1st_Viscount_of_Stair

I think that's a lasting positive legacy. I can testify that buying a house under Scots law is (usually) a much more open and honest business than it is under the labyrinthine laws of England!

His son John, on the other hand, organised the Massacre of Glencoe. The right-hand picture is him - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dalrymple,_1st_Earl_of_Stair.

In (I think) the short story The Dagger With Wings, Father Brown contrasts Dundee (who was credited with magical powers) with Dalrymple who did actual evil, using the legal system.

After an enquiry into the massacre, John was dismissed as Secretary of State for Scotland, but regained favour under Queen Anne, who promoted him from Viscount to Earl.

Joint honours to CharlesT and rohan - decide between you who wants to do the next one!

Tim
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:36 pm

I think you are being over generous to me, Tim. I wrongly identified the 2nd man. I only got the John Dalyrymple connection. through Charles I read about the law stuff and James Dalyrymple but it was way over my head so I ignored it.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby CharlesT » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:51 am

rohan wrote:I think you are being over generous to me, Tim. I wrongly identified the 2nd man. I only got the John Dalyrymple connection. through Charles I read about the law stuff and James Dalyrymple but it was way over my head so I ignored it.

You go ahead Rohan, I've long since exhausted my knowledge barrel on this one. I'll just drop in from time to time "pour encourager les autres" as they say.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:04 pm

I still don't think I won this fairly but in the interests of continuing, I'll accept the free pass offered.

AG and JRM both came from similar, humble beginnings but their friendship led to "cash for honours" accusations later in life,
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:22 pm

I think this is overdue for a clue. Tea and biscuits are probably involved, particularly the latter but possibly not at No 10.
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