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Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:56 pm

NeepNeep wrote:Is it to do with saints?
Cuthbert and Kirkcudbright?


Yes, but none of the other C saints were around at the same time when something big happened. I had toyed with Saint Conval and Barrhead, and St. Columba and Ness, but where is the event that sundered 2 for ever? I'll leave it to the quizmaster pro tem.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:13 pm

Sgurr wrote:
NeepNeep wrote:Is it to do with saints?
Cuthbert and Kirkcudbright?


Yes, but none of the other C saints were around at the same time when something big happened. I had toyed with Saint Conval and Barrhead, and St. Columba and Ness, but where is the event that sundered 2 for ever? I'll leave it to the quizmaster pro tem.


I wondered if it was to do with county enclaves (Nairnshire had several) that were swept away by the county reorganisations in 1890 and 1974. However a Google search has not found anything for me. I then wondered if it was to with MPs. Nairnshire shared an MP with Cromarty, so that with fitted the C and N bit, but the trail went cold after that...

Tim
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby RICHARDCFF » Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:27 pm

HalfManHalfTitanium wrote:
I wondered if it was to do with county enclaves (Nairnshire had several) that were swept away by the county reorganisations in 1890 and 1974. However a Google search has not found anything for me. I then wondered if it was to with MPs. Nairnshire shared an MP with Cromarty, so that with fitted the C and N bit, but the trail went cold after that...

Tim


You effectively have a third of the solution. A little more research will take you (or anyone else) over the line!
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:30 pm

HalfManHalfTitanium wrote:
Sgurr wrote:
NeepNeep wrote:Is it to do with saints?
Cuthbert and Kirkcudbright?


Yes, but none of the other C saints were around at the same time when something big happened. I had toyed with Saint Conval and Barrhead, and St. Columba and Ness, but where is the event that sundered 2 for ever? I'll leave it to the quizmaster pro tem.


I wondered if it was to do with county enclaves (Nairnshire had several) that were swept away by the county reorganisations in 1890 and 1974. However a Google search has not found anything for me. I then wondered if it was to with MPs. Nairnshire shared an MP with Cromarty, so that with fitted the C and N bit, but the trail went cold after that...

Tim

You and I following the same lines but I had to go off to try (unsuccessfully) to retrieve my binocs which I dropped on a walk. Some one saw them but they've gone now. Still haven't had my tea so my research is well and truly on hold
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:28 pm

I'll go along with Nairn shared a MP with Croamrty, and up it to say that "Once upon a time, Clackmannanshire shared an MP with Dunfermline and Kilmarnock with Cumnock"
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby RICHARDCFF » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:14 am

Sgurr wrote:I'll go along with Nairn shared a MP with Croamrty, and up it to say that "Once upon a time, Clackmannanshire shared an MP with Dunfermline and Kilmarnock with Cumnock"


You have identified one more of the six places, whose representation was, for a long time, rather unique.

At their closest points:
C was approximately 165 miles from B
C was approximately 5 miles from N. This pair has previously been correctly identified
C was approximately 2 miles from K (that was quite a difficult exercise and the distance is tentative)
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:56 pm

Are the 2 others Clackmannanshire and Kinross and Caithness and Bute?
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby RICHARDCFF » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:31 pm

rohan wrote:Are the 2 others Clackmannanshire and Kinross and Caithness and Bute?


Correct!
To be precise, these three pairs of small counties were unique in that they alternated returning an MP at successive elections - they did not strictly speaking share an MP. Thus, for example, in the 1768 general election Caithness returned Kenneth Mackenzie and no member was elected for Buteshire; in the following election in 1774 James Stuart was returned for Buteshire and there was no member representing Caithness. This system came to an end with the 1832 Scottish Reform Act (the 'momentous event') better known, of course, for an extension of the franchise. Hence following this, the electoral links between Caithness and Buteshire, and between Nairnshire and Cromartyshire, were sundered. However an electoral link remained between Clackmannanshire and Kinross-shire as they thereafter united to form one parliamentary constituency.
I had some difficulty identifying the border between these latter two counties in the early nineteenth century as I originally mistakenly thought they were contiguous - but will spare you the details... :)

Your go...
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:41 pm

RICHARDCFF wrote:
rohan wrote:Are the 2 others Clackmannanshire and Kinross and Caithness and Bute?


Correct!
To be precise, these three pairs of small counties were unique in that they alternated returning an MP at successive elections - they did not strictly speaking share an MP. Thus, for example, in the 1768 general election Caithness returned Kenneth Mackenzie and no member was elected for Buteshire; in the following election in 1774 James Stuart was returned for Buteshire and there was no member representing Caithness. This system came to an end with the 1832 Scottish Reform Act (the 'momentous event') better known, of course, for an extension of the franchise. Hence following this, the electoral links between Caithness and Buteshire, and between Nairnshire and Cromartyshire, were sundered. However an electoral link remained between Clackmannanshire and Kinross-shire as they thereafter united to form one parliamentary constituency.
I had some difficulty identifying the border between these latter two counties in the early nineteenth century as I originally mistakenly thought they were contiguous - but will spare you the details... :)

Your go...


I really think Sgurr deserves it as without her identifying Nairn early on, and then Clackmannanshire I would still be floundering about in the dark. I was investigating geological fault lines at one stage so miles and eons away. Electoral reform is another weak point in my knowledge.
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby RICHARDCFF » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:47 pm

OK agreed! :)
Over to you Sgurr...
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:21 pm

RICHARDCFF wrote:OK agreed! :)
Over to you Sgurr...

Thank you. One of my firsts jobs was as research assistant on this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Change-Britain-Shaping-Electoral/dp/0333019555/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Butler+Stokes&qid=1614784764&sr=8-1, but it was a very, very long time ago.
What is the connection (I like this style of question now) between BC, WHT and SD ?
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby rohan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:46 pm

Sgurr wrote:
RICHARDCFF wrote:OK agreed! :)
Over to you Sgurr...

Thank you. One of my firsts jobs was as research assistant on this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Change-Britain-Shaping-Electoral/dp/0333019555/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Butler+Stokes&qid=1614784764&sr=8-1, but it was a very, very long time ago.
What is the connection (I like this style of question now) between BC, WHT and SD ?


I hope this isn't another electoral changy thingy (to be technical).
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:18 pm

rohan wrote:
Sgurr wrote:
RICHARDCFF wrote:OK agreed! :)
Over to you Sgurr...

Thank you. One of my firsts jobs was as research assistant on this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Change-Britain-Shaping-Electoral/dp/0333019555/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Butler+Stokes&qid=1614784764&sr=8-1, but it was a very, very long time ago.
What is the connection (I like this style of question now) between BC, WHT and SD ?


I hope this isn't another electoral changy thingy (to be technical).


Absolutely not. Simple as soap (that is not a clue).
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Sgurr » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:46 am

SD is larger than BC, which in turn is bigger thanWHT
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Re: Can I have a "P" please Bob - Scotland (2nd edition)

Postby Glengavel » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:46 pm

Are these breeds of dogs?

Scottish Deerhound
Border Collie
West Highland Terrier

I don't see the connection, apart from being Scottish breeds of dog. I do know that all Border Collies are descended from one particular dog.
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