andrewdoggett wrote:Alastair S wrote:Andrew - a nice set of photos right enough but this report seriously disturbs me. The fact you went ill equipped is bad enough. The fact you also took a child beggars belief. Its not legalese that each walk on this site has the following safety warning: "Hillwalking when there is snow or ice lying requires ice-axe, crampons and the ability to use them".
I know you have children yourself (and they often join you on your trips to the hills) and you are very experienced on the hills so I'm surprised you though venturing out above 1,000m with a child was a good idea. I was in the area the day before on the much gentler slopes of Beinn a' Chaorainn and I - a 14 stone, size 11, B2 shod man - had difficultly getting an edge into the ice hardened snow. Now conditions may have been more benign for you but the point is I was prepared - I had crampons & ice axe. The fact that I didn't use them in the end (because the slopes were so gentle) is neither here nor there.
I think you should seriously consider the safety of yourself and much more importantly any minors before you venture out in winter again.
We do all of course have a responsibility to look after ourselves, and those we take on the hills with us ensuring we make adequate provision to not endanger ourselves, or anyone that may be put in a position to help us in the event of an injury.
I don't intend to have a huge public debate on your points, though I'm sure I'm risking a wrath of strong opinions and views with this response. I agree with the essence of your thoughts (i.e. safety and the ability to look after yourself and those with you without putting others at risk) - but as you choose to phrase them here they do infer that this trip was a touch wreckless, and without due consideration - and that I disagree with you completely on.
1. We were fully 'prepared' to turn back - indeed we discussed that we might have to - this was absolutely not a 'summit at all costs' trip for us - your comments on your walk infer you were 'prepared' to ascend / descend in all but the very worst of conditions. At the very least we would have enjoyed a nice walk up / down a particularly beautiful Glen with my favoured Caledonia Pines, and that would have been enough of an outing for all of us had it turned out that way. We could have lengthened it by walking to Corrour had the ascent been dangerous.
2. The actual ascent was very short (c. 1.5km ignoring the walk in) so should there be any appreciable change / deterioration in the weather we could quickly change and execute revised plans AND add to that conditions were extremely benign, and predicted to stay so for two full days on MWIS
3. There were NO sustained periods of steep ascent / descent were covered in ice that would / could have resulted in a serious fall (i.e. there were routes around them where they existed).
4. I've been to the area (Devils Point, Carn Toul etc from the Linn of Dee), if not the exact route before, so was fully aware of both the route, and the terrain
5. We carried food and shelter for two days and were equipped to spend the night in the wilderness should we have needed to.
6. We were equipped with torches, satellite navigation, and a backup map and compass
I'm sorry you were disturbed. We weren't, and at no point on this walk / climb did we feel uncomfortable. And had we, as I said earlier I assure you, we would have turned back.
And the wee fella had a day he'll probably remember for the rest of his life, for the right reasons. A proper adventure; and a safe one.