Completing the Grahams on Arran

[weaselmaster]

Congrats on the completions. Re the question of numbers and positions in the list, a couple of things should be borne in mind. One is that as well as the rhb list of Graham completers mentioned upthread, there's also an SMC version which can be abstracted (admittedly not easily) from their list of Munro completers. A couple of years ago I had access to the big batch of 2012-14 Munroist etc letters to the SMC, and the "etc" sections included a surprising - and apparently increasing - number of Grahamists whose names didn't and still don't appear on the rhb version. Relations between the two camps aren't the best, and as discussed recently in another place there's also now the problem whereby the new rhsoc people seem to be telling Grahamists that they aren't actually Grahamists at all (because rhsoc is only interested in UK-wide lists), so that is likely to further increase the number of Grahamists only registering on the SMC side of things, I would imagine. (Note however that the SMC list only covers Grahamists who are also Munroists - although that does tend to mostly be the case anyway.)

Cheers Dave - I was aware of the animosity between the two camps - I've emailed Alan Dawson already but will contact Mr Broadhead after we get back from Ireland, hopefully in possession of the complete list of Furths too so that I can get my 6 columns ticked on the SMC site - that's been an ambition for a while.

The comments about women being less likely to register is interesting - I wonder if that's a generational thing? I do know a couple of women who have done the munros (one more than once) and haven't registered their names - not really sure about why though.

[Dave Hewitt]

I was aware of the animosity between the two camps

The turf wars seem to be getting worse, from what I can tell from a safe distance. I'm not part of either camp (forever the interested observer), but although I was part of the early days of rhb etc if anything I'm perhaps now closer to the SMC side of things in terms of who I speak with. Certainly I've found the relevant SMC people to be very friendly and helpful in terms of giving me access to documents and letters before they disappear inside the walls of the National Library of Scotland.

The comments about women being less likely to register is interesting - I wonder if that's a generational thing?

Not sure - it might be getting less that way these days, and it's probably the case that proportionally more women are doing the lists these days (although the more specialised the list, the more the female numbers tail off - there aren't really very many big-number female Marilynists, and you could probably fit the female Tumpers inside a small van). There used to be a situation - I've heard this said by more than one woman of a certain vintage - that in the days (25ish years ago) when the SMC was male-only, various women Munroists had absolutely no intention of sending in their names to what was by then the SMC list of Munroists. (It was originally a Grampian Club list - and the GC did admit women - but that's overcomplicating matters.)

Anyway, the women who took that principled stance seem absolutely sensible to me, and I can well understand it - and there could well be quite a few early unlisted women Munroists - eg there's a decent piece of evidence that Annie Wells aka Mrs Hirst wasn't the first when she completed in 1947. Whether that kind of attitude still pertains today is hard to say (particularly for a bloke like me), but the SMC still isn't exactly awash with women so it might well do, at least to an extent. But more likely is just the general psychological/sociological-ish thing whereby women are less attracted to lists than are men, even when they're women who have actively worked their way round a list of hills.

[Sgurr]

You may find that there are even fewer "self propelled women" . I only started out hill walking because I couldn't persusade R to join me in long-distance cycling after daughter found a boyfriend with a car. However, we have met at least one woman with high numbers of Marilyns who seems to be doing it herself, and what is more, has a husband who is into yachting, so he can take her to islands....brilliant. I know another couple where the female half started first and persuaded partner into it. Dave will know more than us how other couples are situated. Having said that, I am really the organiser and if I left it to R he would seldom find out if there was a boat/ easier way/ permission needed and got etc. etc. and while I am ruthless about playing the OAP card to obtain access, he would be far too embarrassed.


I imagine that weaselmaster's professional stance would enable him to judge how many of us list tickers suffer from OCD.

[Dave Hewitt]

we have met at least one woman with high numbers of Marilyns who seems to be doing it herself, and what is more, has a husband who is into yachting, so he can take her to islands....brilliant.

I know the couple you mean - have had two or three days out with them, although not recently. The chap not only has a yacht but also he isn't particularly bothered about climbing hills, so the arrangement whereby he drops off the wife on the shore of some obscure sea loch and she then disappears upwards for a few hours seems to work really well for both of them. There aren't that many couples in that kind of situation, though...

As for self-propelled women, it's hard to really know. There are a few in the Marilyns world who genuinely seem to be doing it without some chap in tow, although the other way around is much more common. With the much larger sample of Munroists there seem to be many more instances of men (with or without a female partner) climbing hills alone than there are of women doing the same without a man.

Plenty of couples, though - lots who have climbed pretty much all their hills together, eg the Munroist and Corbetteer lists aren't short of examples. Quite whether either would do it without the other is another question, however. In 1999 or 2000 I went to visit the frail Elizabeth - or Beth - Ferrier in Edinburgh. She had completed her Munros in 1960 (17 Sept 1960 to be precise, on Beinn Mheadhoin), and had done them all with her husband John. They had married in 1946 and he completed his own round on 12 June 1956 (on Mull, with Beth present). He then accompanied her on all the ones they hadn't already climbed together. John Ferrier died in 1977, aged 67. I asked Beth if she'd climbed many hills since his death, and she said no, none at all apart from Arthur's Seat.

[nigheandonn]

Congratulations

Arran looks lovely despite some very mixed weather - I especially like the standing stones!

[nigheandonn]

I was reading this and vaguely disagreeing, and then realised that I have no intention of registering as a Wainwright completer if and when. I think this is more a vague and probably unjustified antipathy to the Wainwright society than a dislike of lists, though - if I ever finish any of the Scottish lists I probably will, although only the Donalds are at all likely.

Anyway, I'm just odd - a relatively young woman walking alone and by public transport!

[David-Main]

Congratulations you 2... that is some achievement

[satkins]

Well done to you both on such a great achievement. Great photos for those of us to follow

[paz1953]

Very impressive achievement. Enjoyed reading your reports - keep them coming