Route to Beinn A’Chliabhain is unsafe (winter conditions)

[navrlondon]

In winter conditions:
Route to Beinn A’Chliabhain from NR96293 41555 is unsafe. I was able to descend from NR96251 41517.

[dav2930]

In winter conditions:
Route to Beinn A’Chliabhain from NR96293 41555 is unsafe. I was able to descend from NR96251 41517.

Why is it unsafe? As this post is in the walk reports section, perhaps a little detail about your personal experience on this route, and the reasons you were forced to descend, might have been appropriate and helpful?

[Mal Grey]

In winter conditions:
Route to Beinn A’Chliabhain from NR96293 41555 is unsafe. I was able to descend from NR96251 41517.

Why is it unsafe? As this post is in the walk reports section, perhaps a little detail about your personal experience on this route, and the reasons you were forced to descend, might have been appropriate and helpful?

Quite. It would be useful to have some idea of the reasoning, the specific conditions (winter can be anything from ice covered rocks to deep powder, through perfect neve that is a joy to walk on with crampons), and a description of the alternatives.

I'm speculating (from the 1:25k OS map) that it could be the lower "traverse" line that would potentially be dodgy in winter (crossing very steep ground), but the given co-ordinates are too close together to be able to really tell, without being there with a reliable GPS.

Either way, thanks for the warning and welcome to Walkhighlands.

[Chris Mac]

I have figured out what navrlondon is talking about, it is the so-called path marked on the OS map below Consolation Tor on Beinn Tarsuinn. This lower path is not a proper path and should be avoided at all costs! It is loose, worn away and very exposed, you are above an overhanging cliff.

Anyone descending Beinn Tarsuin to Consolation Tor should always turn right for Beinn a' Chliabhain, or left for A' Chir, never venture down onto this path (left at Tor down towards A' Chir then right at the cairn) as you can see from the photo below it barely even has a path and some sections have fallen away. There is definitely a case for the OS updating old paths like this otherwise it could lead to trouble or worse for someone who attempts it without proper knowledge of how exposed and worn it is:

[jmarkb]

I think the description(Stage 4) of https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/arran/three-beinns.shtml could be made clearer, though the map shows the ("correct") upper line.

[Chris Mac]

I think the description(Stage 4) of https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/arran/three-beinns.shtml could be made clearer, though the map shows the ("correct") upper line.

I agree, it would be better to avoid going left at Consolation Tor to Bealach an Fhir Bhogha then right as this may be where the confusion lies, it would be much safer to reach Consolation Tor then head right with the options to the left being either A' Chir or it's bypass path to the west, not heading that way then doubling back otherwise the risk of the path of death being taken is increased. This can be easily fixed by replacing the mention of the Bealach with Consolation Tor:

Stage 4

Continue onwards to the twin summits of the second Beinn - Tarsuinn - with panoramic views in all directions. The steep descent to Consolation Tor is far from easy, with a certain amount of scrambling and negotiation of substantial boulders. A worn path is occasionally visible, but as much of the route involves rock slabs it's best to pick the path that appears most sensible. From past the Tor turn immmediately right and head south, again along a narrow, steep path, to arrive on the ridge above Coire Daingean with Beinn a'Chliabhain ahead. Follow the path along the grassy ridge, before forking left to ascend toward the summit. A clearer path heading right traverses well below the summit so don't miss the turning.


The map would need slightly tweaked to reflect this but the safest option by far is to avoid people going anywhere near that path.

[gaffr]

To get onto that lower path, as has been said, you would need to be using the bigger scale map.
At the time when I climbed and did the traverse of the Corbetts on Arran I had just a 1:50,000 map so had no idea that a lower path existed. Although we did come back from Pagoda Ridge on the upper path that overlooks the fine meadow face of Nuis to get back to our tent in Glen Rosa.
A great island for granite walking and climbs.

[Mal Grey]

I have figured out what navrlondon is talking about, it is the so-called path marked on the OS map below Consolation Tor on Beinn Tarsuinn. This lower path is not a proper path and should be avoided at all costs! It is loose, worn away and very exposed, you are above an overhanging cliff.

Anyone descending Beinn Tarsuin to Consolation Tor should always turn right for Beinn a' Chliabhain, or left for A' Chir, never venture down onto this path (left at Tor down towards A' Chir then right at the cairn) as you can see from the photo below it barely even has a path and some sections have fallen away. There is definitely a case for the OS updating old paths like this otherwise it could lead to trouble or worse for someone who attempts it without proper knowledge of how exposed and worn it is:

Thanks Chris, that looks like a nightmare! The OS ask for Error reports to be sent via their Contact Page https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/contact-us (I've sent a few). It will then at least go on file for when that section of the base map is next updated, and then again when the next paper maps are printed. I'd agree with your assessment.

[Chris Mac]

Thanks Chris, that looks like a nightmare! The OS ask for Error reports to be sent via their Contact Page https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/contact-us (I've sent a few). It will then at least go on file for when that section of the base map is next updated, and then again when the next paper maps are printed. I'd agree with your assessment.

Nice one Mal good shout, i've sent them a message pointing to here and explaining the error with the path on OS map 361. As you say hopefully they will see from the photo that it might be best removing that bit of path from the map for safety reasons. Cheers!

[Giant Stoneater]

Interesting topic,my own views on this are why should a path that already exists be labelled as a error just because it might be dangerous in winter conditions,the path is already there and so it should be highlighted by the OS,this site highlights it and no doubt there will be other sites/books also.
The things is where do you draw the line,someone could highlight the other higher path as a error,nothing to stop them and I don't know how the OS refines these things and updates them.
All paths on maps are summer versions so to speak,you could label numerous paths as errors just because of winter conditions and being more dangerious ie Liathach path that goes through Coire Liath Mhor,Cuillin path that goes through Bealach na Glaic Moire,Helvellyn Striding Edge,Snowdon Grib Coch all which appear on the 1:25k OS map in greater detail than 1:50k.
I myself have been a frequent visitor to Arran and have never felt the need to use that lower path,one am mostly on my own and second it does not look feasible to my own eye,it's a hell of a drop.

[Chris Mac]

my own views on this are why should a path that already exists be labelled as a error just because it might be dangerous in winter conditions,the path is already there and so it should be highlighted by the OS

Hi GS, It's not about winter conditions, it is about this:

it does not look feasible to my own eye,it's a hell of a drop.

As you can see yourself from the photo, this is about common sense, safety and it being best to avoid this "path" completely, regardless of the time of year.

I checked some old OS maps and the 1868 to 1891 ones have no path and shows the current location of the path as being off a cliff edge which seems more accurate. There is still no marked path between Beinn Tarsuinn and Beinn a' Chliabhain and from 1926 up to to 1956.

I've had a quick look but can't find the first map this path appeared on but it wasn't on any of the older ones, they all show a cliff where the path is, so I figure one of the early 1:25k OS maps of Arran probably marked it, possibly when the path was walkable although going with the eyeball test and lack of path there on any older maps suggests to me possible confusion from those doing the survey at the time.

Maybe the map makers got drunk up the Ormidale afterwards and did a rush job to finish their notes, whatever happened it is very surprising to see a path marked on ground like that, i'm now more intrigued to find out why this was marked as a path, hopefully the OS will get back to me about it and I can query it further with them.

I'll also contact a friend in the Arran MRT to see what their take on it is.

[jmarkb]

It appears that the lower path has not always been a totally unreasonable proposition: for example, Ralph Storer uses it in one of his "100 Best Routes", though he does note that it is maybe better to use the upper route in winter. Likewise it gets a mention in my 1989 edition of the SMC Islands guide, again with a note that it becomes very exposed in winter. The lower path appear to have suffered some erosion/landslip in the fairly recent past which has made it more dangerous. It will be interesting to see what the OS's take on it is, since it is a clearly an existing feature on the ground.

[Chris Mac]

The lower path appear to have suffered some erosion/landslip in the fairly recent past which has made it more dangerous. It will be interesting to see what the OS's take on it is, since it is a clearly an existing feature on the ground.

Good work, I suspected as much and await AMRT providing additional info. The OS replied earlier and we'll get a proper response sometime soon, likely within the next 7-10 days:

Hello Chris,

Thank you for your feedback about a path being shown.

I have passed the details to our technical support team to investigate and advise. Hopefully i will be able to provide a full response to you by 16 March and possibly earlier.

I do hope you will find this helpful and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Business Enquiries,

A Contact Us Webform has been submitted to us via the OS Website, please review the submitted details below:

Webform Entry Received:
Topic : Report an error
Sub-Topic : Paper map products

Description Of Error : Please visit the page on Walkhighlands at https:--www.walkhighlands.co.uk-Forum-viewtopic.php?f=9&t=95706 for details and info including a screenshot and photo where we found an error

on map 361 - https:--www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk-shop-explorer-map-isle-of-arran.html. The lower path to the east of Consolation Tor is not a good path to take and is very risky, it should probably be removed to help prevent anyone taking it by mistake. Thanks.

Location Of Error : Map of Isle of Arran 361 - Explorer 1:25 000 scale

[Chris Mac]

I found a closer shot I took of the path and cliff and with a better scale I reckon the path could be doable but still very airy and risky. Added below in case anyone wants a closer look using the Flickr zoom. I'm heading home in the next week or so and plan to go up and investigate closer to see it in detail:

Coire Daingean path by Chris Mac, on Flickr

[Chris Mac]

Update from Arran MRT:

Hi Chris, in MRT we call it high and low pass, the low pass has been there as long as I can remember.
I guess it was a deer/sheep track originally and developed into a track used by a few who knew it existed.
We in the MRT use it often but care needs to be taken especially in wet conditions.
For example when I complete the A’Chir ridge with clients in the Mountain festival we always exit through the high pass for all the extra time it takes with a large group.