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Hit and Miss

Hit and Miss


Postby johnkaysleftleg » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:04 am

Hewitts included on this walk: Birks Fell

Date walked: 15/05/2019

Time taken: 4.2

Distance: 15.6 km

Ascent: 479m

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With the dry weather continuing, another visit to the Yorkshire Dales was in order to climb up one of its many usually boggy tops. Birks fell just trumps the 2000ft mark and went from nothing to a Hewitt and an Marilyn in 2006 when, what was thought to be a rounding error, at sometime in the distant past that led to it's height on OS maps being shown at 1,995 feet was corrected. Poor old Horse Head Moor not only failed to reach the magic 2,000ft in this survey by a mere 30cm but also was replaced as the Marilyn on the ridge. With this in mind and the fact the errors do indeed happen I thought I'd visit both on a traverse of the ridge starting at Hubberholme.

In contrast to my usual plan of attack(get high as early as possible), I decided to wander along side the very dry River Wharf to Yokenthwaite before I started to make my way up the ridge. This was a delightful stroll in just about every way possible on such a vibrant spring morning, and It was slightly disappointing once the time to start heading upwards came.

ImageA very dry River Wharfe by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageChurch at Hubberholme by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageRiver Wharfe by Anthony Young, on Flickr

Image
Trees in Springtime by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageBluebells along the path by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageDown by the Wharfe by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageApproaching Yokenthwaite by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageBridge at Yokenthwaite by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageYokenthwaite by Anthony Young, on Flickr

It was very warm without any breeze and even though the path up to Horse Head gate is excellent and at a nice easy gradient, I was soon sweating profusely. Sometimes names are obvious, but at other times it's hard to make much sense of them. Horse Head Moor is one such name. I've visited it and seen it from afar without any indication as to why it is so called :? If anybody knows, enlightenment would be most appreciated. Upon reaching the gate I turned right to visit the excellently located trig point which oversees splendid views of the three peaks country and provided a fine epic Hughie photo op.

ImageYokenthwaite Moor by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageLooking down Langstrothdale by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageHag Beck Gill by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageUpper reaches of Hagg Beck by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageThirsty Work! by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageHigh on Horse Head Moor by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageView from Horse Head Gate by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageAlong the wall to the Trig Point by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageEpic Hughie Pose by Anthony Young, on Flickr

I retraced my steps to the gate and headed along the ridge towards the summit of Horse Head moor. Spying a reasonable size cairn over the wall that seemed to mark the spot height on the OS map, I made my way to it via a couple of wall climbs happy that I had made the high point and therefore would have no need to revisit in the event of some survey finding an extra 31cms. :wink: It turned out however that I didn't visit the high point, this this being 160m away on the North side of the wall :? I really should do my research but returning would not be much of an issue as up to now the walking has been superb underfoot and as easy as you could wish for.

ImageA little Limestone Pavement by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageHorse Head Moor Summit? by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageWide Open Spaces of Landstrothdale by Anthony Young, on Flickr

The advantages of doing this walk following a dry spell were to become apparent. Over the next mile or so as we made our way through largely bone dry peat hags and bogs. Following wet weather this stretch would be quite a chore I imagine, but on this day all was good and we soon gently ascended to the summit cairn of Birks Fell and opted to have lunch. Well I did, as Hughie gets little say in the matter.

Image
Some Moorland Beauty by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageShake Hole by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageOn the Way to Birks Fell by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageNameless Tarn on Birks Fell by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageBirks Fell by Anthony Young, on Flickr

All that remained once we were fed and watered was to visit Birks Fell tarn and make our way back to Hubberholme. The tarn was quite nice given it had a stony bed rather than just being a glorified muddy puddle but temptations to go for a paddle were ignored and we continued along till we met up with the footpath down to Redmire Farm.

ImageBishopdale over the Wall by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageBirks Fell Tarn by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageFlag Stone Path by Anthony Young, on Flickr

All the way down had nice views of Buckden Pike (quite why it's labelled a "Pike" I'll never know) and Buckden Beck. This provides a very fine ascent of the fell, highly recommended for those who haven't already been that way, and brought back memories of me and Grace climbing up there on a beautifully clear day a few years back.

https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=56150

ImageBuckden Pike by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageLooking back up Birks Fell by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageBuckden Beck by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageLooking towards Buckden Pike by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageOn the path back to Hubberholme by Anthony Young, on Flickr

ImageBuckden Across Wharfedale by Anthony Young, on Flickr

Soon enough we were back at the car having completed the walk having seen only one other couple, and that was on the way down.The temptation of a pint at the Inn was overwhelming but I stayed strong :roll: and headed off home following a quite splendid day out.

ImageBridge at Hubberholme by Anthony Young, on Flickr


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johnkaysleftleg
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby Sgurr » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:53 pm

Well, you certainly seem to have rendered what could be a boring hill into an interesting walk. I think it was here, or hereabouts, that my husband worked out the paradox of the most boring hill "If, for example, this was the most boring hill we have ever climbed, that fact it is really boring is quite interesting, so it can’t be the most boring hill. So by extension, the next most boring hill can’t be promoted to be the most boring. So there are NO boring hills!”
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby dav2930 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:40 pm

Sgurr wrote:Well, you certainly seem to have rendered what could be a boring hill into an interesting walk. I think it was here, or hereabouts, that my husband worked out the paradox of the most boring hill "If, for example, this was the most boring hill we have ever climbed, that fact it is really boring is quite interesting, so it can’t be the most boring hill. So by extension, the next most boring hill can’t be promoted to be the most boring. So there are NO boring hills!”

I like this argument. On the surface it's quite persuasive. Shame it isn't valid though. What is 'quite interesting' is the fact that it is the most boring hill, not the hill itself, which remains the most boring (if it is a fact that it is). :crazy:

I think the conclusion is still true though - there are no boring hills! But that's because the initial premise is really false - the present hill isn't really boring at all! :lol:
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby Sgurr » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Yes, but the fact that this is (or may be) the most boring hill, is for ever associated with this hill, which makes it not boring, unless you disassociate any facts about the hill, (such as the Covenanters used to rally here, or there are egg rolling competitions on it) from the hill itself and regard it just as a matter of topography..


Just to add a bit more interest to this discussion

http://loveofscotland.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-most-boring-hill-in-scotland.html
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby dav2930 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:09 pm

Sgurr wrote:Yes, but the fact that this is (or may be) the most boring hill, is for ever associated with this hill, which makes it not boring, unless you disassociate any facts about the hill, (such as the Covenanters used to rally here, or there are egg rolling competitions on it) from the hill itself and regard it just as a matter of topography..


Just to add a bit more interest to this discussion

http://loveofscotland.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-most-boring-hill-in-scotland.html

Nice little article! I have to agree that the most boring hills in Scotland are full of interest compared with parts of the Pennines :lol:

Back to the argument (or paradox). There may be lots of interesting facts about a given hill, and some of those facts may make the hill itself interesting, but if the only interesting fact about it is that it is the most boring hill, then the hill itself remains boring (as a matter of fact, however interesting that fact may be). Otherwise, the paradox is simply a logical contradiction (two contradictory facts about the same hill).
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby trailmasher » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:34 pm

Another fine walk JK and done after a spell of dry weather on a fine weather day that makes for a decent day out indeed 8) I now know what it looks like up there as when Chris and I did it all we saw was wet peat, water, and thick clag that somehow gives credence to Sgurr and dav2930's complimentary postings on the merits of boring and/or interesting :lol:

I can go either way as it was boring when I was up there with nowt to see but a wall and wire fence and now interesting as I've seen what it's really like on top of Birks and Horse Head Moor, so thanks for that Anthony :D

Nice report and photos :clap:
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby johnkaysleftleg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:08 am

Sgurr wrote:Well, you certainly seem to have rendered what could be a boring hill into an interesting walk. I think it was here, or hereabouts, that my husband worked out the paradox of the most boring hill "If, for example, this was the most boring hill we have ever climbed, that fact it is really boring is quite interesting, so it can’t be the most boring hill. So by extension, the next most boring hill can’t be promoted to be the most boring. So there are NO boring hills!”


Isn't sometimes boring a good thing? If the peat Hags and bogs had been full of rain crossing them would have been difficult or "interesting" when in fact it was simple or "boring" if you like. Perhaps boring hills are good to let the mind wander to things such as, "where is this horse's head?" or "why is a whaleback fell called a pike?" or other perplexing problems.

dav2930 wrote:Back to the argument (or paradox). There may be lots of interesting facts about a given hill, and some of those facts may make the hill itself interesting, but if the only interesting fact about it is that it is the most boring hill, then the hill itself remains boring (as a matter of fact, however interesting that fact may be). Otherwise, the paradox is simply a logical contradiction (two contradictory facts about the same hill).


But surely the stories or facts about a hill are part of the reason for climbing them in the first place. If Birks fell didn't just poke above the 2,000ft contour I wouldn't have even been up there in all likelihood. I admit that 2000ft above sea level is a purely arbitrary measurement but it does certainly seem to make a difference to us humans for some baffling reason.
What I'm trying to say is that even the most boring hill would have to qualify as a hill by some criteria and therefore would have more facts about it other that the most boring hill accolade. I think my head hurts now :lol:

trailmasher wrote:Another fine walk JK and done after a spell of dry weather on a fine weather day that makes for a decent day out indeed 8) I now know what it looks like up there as when Chris and I did it all we saw was wet peat, water, and thick clag that somehow gives credence to Sgurr and dav2930's complimentary postings on the merits of boring and/or interesting :lol:

I can go either way as it was boring when I was up there with nowt to see but a wall and wire fence and now interesting as I've seen what it's really like on top of Birks and Horse Head Moor, so thanks for that Anthony :D

Nice report and photos :clap:


Glad to be of service, I've certainly climbed hills with worse views than this one on clear days. My own personal most boring would have to be Black Hambleton in the Moors so I suppose that in itself precludes it from the most boring accolade. :?
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby dav2930 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:24 pm

johnkaysleftleg wrote:But surely the stories or facts about a hill are part of the reason for climbing them in the first place. If Birks fell didn't just poke above the 2,000ft contour I wouldn't have even been up there in all likelihood. I admit that 2000ft above sea level is a purely arbitrary measurement but it does certainly seem to make a difference to us humans for some baffling reason.
What I'm trying to say is that even the most boring hill would have to qualify as a hill by some criteria and therefore would have more facts about it other that the most boring hill accolade. I think my head hurts now :lol:

:lol: I'm very much of the opinion that there are no boring hills, not even the most featureless Pennine moorland swellings, especially when the weather is fine and sunny. Your photos and report of Birks Fell supports that opinion very nicely I think. I like Sgurr's husband's little paradoxical argument - it's clearly humorous and not intended to be taken too seriously, but does raise a point of logic. Unfortunately I can't resist points of logic. The conclusion that 'this can't be the most boring hill' obviously contradicts the premiss that 'this is the the most boring hill'. The other premiss, which appears to make the argument valid, is 'the fact it is really boring is quite interesting'. But what is described as 'quite interesting' is not the hill itself, but the fact that the hill itself is really boring (it's an interesting fact, not an interesting hill). If the hill itself were described as 'quite interesting' then the premiss itself would be self-contradictory since it has already stated as a matter of fact that it is 'really boring'. Interesting stuff! Sorry if your head hurts :crazy: :lol:
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Re: Hit and Miss

Postby Sgurr » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:14 pm

My head often hurts on these walks. One time my husband was entirely quiet for the first half hour...since a woman had drawn up at the start and said "Oh, I thought you were somebody else." and drove away. "How could she think that I WAS somebody else. I'm clearly ME, so how could I be SOMEBODY ELSE. She may have mistaken me for somebody else, but how could she think I WAS somebody else."
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