Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

[simon-b]

It's very well publicised that the rules are different for each nation of the UK. Briefings by the Scottish and Welsh first ministers are aired U.K. wide by the BBC as well as briefings from London. The virus itself doesn't recognise national boundaries, and the dangers to MRT etc would be the same if an incident like that in Glen Coe occurred in Snowdonia or Lakeland. So it's not completely irrelevant to mention the situation outside Scotland for comparison, maybe to see how well each of the four nations' rules work compared to each other.

[gman]

So it's not completely irrelevant to mention the situation outside Scotland for comparison, maybe to see how well each of the four nations' rules work compared to each other.

Have you heard of any cases in the UK linked to hillwalking/outdoor exercise? There's a comparison of cases per 100k on the UK dashboard but most research I've seen seems to link infections to gatherings in poorly ventilated indoor areas which explains the rise in winter and spike after the restrictions were eased on 25th Dec. I don't think it's possible to link the outdoor exercise policies to these rates, but just for comparison:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

[simon-b]

So it's not completely irrelevant to mention the situation outside Scotland for comparison, maybe to see how well each of the four nations' rules work compared to each other.

Have you heard of any cases in the UK linked to hillwalking/outdoor exercise? There's a comparison of cases per 100k on the UK dashboard but most research I've seen seems to link infections to gatherings in poorly ventilated indoor areas which explains the rise in winter and spike after the restrictions were eased on 25th Dec. I don't think it's possible to link the outdoor exercise policies to these rates, but just for comparison:

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https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

I don't disagree with you there gman. There seems to be a lot of controversy at the moment regarding outdoor exercise because the participants are easy to spot and therefore easy targets, when the main danger of Covid infection occurs in other settings, as you say. But an MRT incident does put more pressure on already stretched emergency and health services.

[Sunset tripper]

The latest 7 day average shows my local neighbourhood has 157 cases per 100,000. My local mountains are the cairngorms.
Macdui (on the border) and Derry Cairngorm are in a local neighbourhood that has 461 cases per 100,000 (honest I looked it up ) I'm going to stay off the hills until the cases in the Cairngorms come down a bit.

More seriously I'm going to stay off the hills until the roads improve, I get some time off, and there's a bit more daylight, maybe mid February will be better (I reckon that will have kept my travel and recreation this year to an absolute minimum).............. I don't care much for the saying "the hills will always be there" because that's really not much use if you're not here.

Hopefully this vaccine works because I don't think most folk can take much more of this.

[Marty_JG]

The latest 7 day average shows my local neighbourhood has 157 cases per 100,000. My local mountains are the cairngorms. Macdui (on the border) and Derry Cairngorm are in a local neighbourhood that has 461 cases per 100,000 (honest I looked it up ) I'm going to stay off the hills until the cases in the Cairngorms come down a bit.

Very few people live there so any infection is going to show up as a large percentage or ratio, so yes it's 460 per 100k, it's also 14 positive cases in the last week.

Anyone legally exercising in the area should take care to avoid the very few people who live there.

[gman]

Very few people live there so any infection is going to show up as a large percentage or ratio, so yes it's 460 per 100k, it's also 14 positive cases in the last week.

Yes, I think that was his point.

[gman]

We've now got more info on the infection rate in 2020, we came out of lockdown at the start of July and more people than usual were on the hills (Lomond MR reported it was already their busiest year ever on 13 Sep). The Lancet article I linked to earlier showed the concern that the rate would rise in the colder months as people spent less time exercising outdoors and this appears to be the case. More restrictions were introduced in Oct which brought the rate down, then households were allowed to gather indoors on 25 Dec which caused a massive spike (now coming back down as restrictions are back in place).

https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview

[simon-b]

Absolutely people should be encouraged to exercise outdoors (within the rules). During a health crisis it makes sense to stay fit and healthy, and maintain a strong immune system. It's hard to get enough vitamin D from daylight in winter so every precious little helps.

[al78]

Absolutely people should be encouraged to exercise outdoors (within the rules). During a health crisis it makes sense to stay fit and healthy, and maintain a strong immune system. It's hard to get enough vitamin D from daylight in winter so every precious little helps.

Especially when we are persistently having a near 50% sunshine deficit like SE England.

[gman]

I think the main advantage is that outdoor exercise gets people away from indoor spaces where we know the virus is more likely to spread.

[gman]

Relative risks:

The odds that a primary case transmitted COVID-19 in a closed environment was 18.7 times greater compared to an open-air environment (95% confidence interval [CI]: 6.0, 57.9).

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.28.20029272v2?ijkey=4f0a236095f0315a2cf896cd00e3f675cb1e0a5a&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

Households show the highest transmission rates among indoor settings compared to other settings such as social gatherings, travel, healthcare, workplace and casual close contacts.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/209673/covid-19-spread-different-social-settings-imperial/

[Sunset tripper]

Another couple of mountain rescues. One on Ben Nevis where a couple of climbers travelled from Glasgow and needed help on the North Face. Both given a fixed penalty notice.
The other on the same day was on Creag Meagaidh where climbers were rescued but it was ok because they were local and no covid regulations were broken.
https://www-pressandjournal-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/2859847/climbers-rescued/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16122208634142&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pressandjournal.co.uk%2Ffp%2Fnews%2Fhighlands%2F2859847%2Fclimbers-rescued%2F

It would be very interesting to know where the 2 local climbers came from, I'm fairly sure they don't live at the bottom of Creag Meagaidh.
To be fair it seems the police have acted reasonably in these two cases and there can be few complaints from the climbers on Nevis who got a slap on the wrist and a £60 / £30 fine.

What is more interesting was a call out on Ben Lomond which appears to have had a different outcome. I think this is the same mob who charged the Crianlarich 2.
Of course we don't know the exact details of these incidents but it seems they are being policed differently.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/fife-covidiots-charged-after-travel-19690321.amp

On a positive note it seems to becoming slightly clearer that travelling within your own local authority is acceptable.
If I was venturing out I would be staying well within my limits and If I did have a mishap would do everything possible to try and get myself home without help, which I would probably do anyway but it sits just a little bit uneasy.

Well done Lochaber and Lomond MRT, without them the whole thing could have been far more serious!

[Backpacker]

Another couple of mountain rescues. One on Ben Nevis where a couple of climbers travelled from Glasgow and needed help on the North Face. Both given a fixed penalty notice.
The other on the same day was on Creag Meagaidh where climbers were rescued but it was ok because they were local and no covid regulations were broken.
https://www-pressandjournal-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/2859847/climbers-rescued/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16122208634142&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pressandjournal.co.uk%2Ffp%2Fnews%2Fhighlands%2F2859847%2Fclimbers-rescued%2F

It would be very interesting to know where the 2 local climbers came from, I'm fairly sure they don't live at the bottom of Creag Meagaidh.
To be fair it seems the police have acted reasonably in these two cases and there can be few complaints from the climbers on Nevis who got a slap on the wrist and a £60 / £30 fine.

What is more interesting was a call out on Ben Lomond which appears to have had a different outcome. I think this is the same mob who charged the Crianlarich 2.
Of course we don't know the exact details of these incidents but it seems they are being policed differently.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/fife-covidiots-charged-after-travel-19690321.amp

On a positive note it seems to becoming slightly clearer that travelling within your own local authority is acceptable.
If I was venturing out I would be staying well within my limits and If I did have a mishap would do everything possible to try and get myself home without help, which I would probably do anyway but it sits just a little bit uneasy.

Well done Lochaber and Lomond MRT, without them the whole thing could have been far more serious!

The rules quite clearly state you’re allowed to travel within your local authority boundary and up to 5 miles outside it for exercise. It’s seems to be a lottery if you need rescued whether you get slapped with a reckless conduct charge or not if you breach the travel restrictions

[Tringa]

The walkers on Creag Meagaidh were definitely within the letter of the law but not within the spirit.

The law is clear but unfortunately ridiculous.

As long as the encouragement to stay local is guidance there will be people who abuse it.

Dave

[Marty_JG]

The walkers on Creag Meagaidh were definitely within the letter of the law but not within the spirit.

The law is clear but unfortunately ridiculous.

They were within the law and therefore within the spirit of the law. You disagree with the law, okay, but that does not mean they were not within the sprit. The law is VERY precisely termed.

As for Culpable & Reckless charges, this selective enforcement is quite wide. Bear in mind most people who go out and fined do not get charged. Margaret Ferrier did. I think most people are okay with that... however... no mention of this nurse being charged:

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/covid-nurse-turns-up-shift-19700021

And it's not the only example. I know a nursing assistant and of two other cases, a nurse, a care home staff, who each turned up whilst heavily symptomatic. It ripped though the care home killing several. No charges.